Fauci testifies on coronavirus response

By Meg Wagner, Mike Hayes and Melissa Macaya, CNN

Updated 2:05 PM ET, Wed September 23, 2020
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1:23 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

4 key quotes from today's Senate hearing on Trump's Covid-19 response 

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Robert Redfield, director at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and other White House coronavirus task members testified before the Senate Health Committee today about the Trump administration's response to the pandemic.

They were grilled on vaccines, testing, masks and the reopening of schools.

Here are four key lines from today's hearing:

  • Susceptibility to the virus: “CDC is in the process of a very large, sequential study across the entire United States, measuring serology ... the preliminary results on the first round show that a majority of our nation – more than 90% of the population – remains susceptible,” Redfield said.
  • Vaccine timeline: "So as these trials go on, we predict that some time by the end of this year, let's say November or December, we will know whether or not these are safe and effective and as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, right now doses of this vaccine are being produced so that they'll be ready to be distributed," Fauci told lawmakers.
  • Reversals to CDC guidelines: "We're committed to data and science and to give the American public the best public health recommendations we can based on that data and science, and be open, if necessary, if the data and science changes, to modify that guidance based on that new data, but we are committed to data and science and that will be the grounding of how we make these recommendations," Redfield told the committee.
  • Authorization of a vaccine: “FDA will not authorize or approve any Covid-19 vaccine before it has met the agency's rigorous expectations for safety and effectiveness. Decisions to authorize or approve any such vaccine or therapeutic will be made by the dedicated career staff at FDA, through our thorough review processes, and science will guide our decisions," Dr. Stephen Hahn, commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration, promised the Senate Health Committee.

1:40 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

Hahn and Redfield stress a transparent vaccine approval process amid concerns over its politicization

From CNN's Ali Main

Dr. Stephen Hahn, the US Food and Drug Administration Commissioner, and Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, testified that the coronavirus vaccine approval process would be transparent amid concerns that the process would be politicized.

Hahn and Redfield testified on Wednesday that each potential vaccine candidate would be reviewed by advisory committees in public meetings at their agencies and that the agencies' findings would be made public for each product before approval.

"It will be a public process- the vote, the discussion and the recommendations will be public, and we will incorporate those and then make our decision," Hahn told the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee.

Redfield also said, "you should anticipate this will be a public discussion," noting the only caveats to conducting the approval process publicly would be concerns about either national security or proprietary information on the commercial side.

He explained the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices would publicly deliberate and make recommendations on how a coronavirus vaccine will be used in the United States after the FDA makes its own authorization recommendation.

Hahn told Sen. Mitt Romney that the FDA's entire process of making a recommendation can take "weeks, sometimes months," and explained the agency hasn't made a commitment to a vaccine timeline because they don't yet know the complexity or volume of the data on the products.

However, he assured the senator that his agency would rise to the moment.

"We do feel the urgency of the moment. We do take very much.... very seriously our responsibility to protect American lives. We will not delay, but we will not cut corners in our process," Hahn said.

1:19 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

Fauci says it's impossible to get Covid-19 from getting the vaccine

From CNN’s Amanda Watts

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said it is a myth that you can get Covid-19 by getting the vaccine. 

Fauci was asked by Sen. Lamar Alexander during the Senate Health Committee on Wednesday, “If I take a shot to get the vaccine, does that give me Covid?” 

“Absolutely not. That would be impossible,” Fauci said. 

Drilling it home, Alexander again asked, “One of the risks of a vaccine shot is not getting Covid?” 

Fauci responded, “That is correct. That that risk does not exist.” 

1:17 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

CDC director deflects questions about political pushback around his mask comment

From CNN's Amanda Watts

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

Dr. Robert Redfield, director at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, would not comment about any political pushback he received after making a comment about masks last week.  

On Sept. 16, Redfield told the Senate Appropriations subcommittee, “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against Covid than when I take a Covid vaccine.” Later that day, President Trump said Redfield was “confused” when he made that comment.  

On Wednesday, during the Senate Health Committee hearing, Redfield was asked if he received any political pushback about his mask comments. 

“I stand by trying to present the data and the science as I see it, and I will continue to do that,” Redfield said. 

“It's not going to be modulated by whether individuals really appreciate what I say or don't appreciate what I say,” he said.  

Redfield said he wouldn’t comment on any conversations he’s had with the President. 

“I've total confidence in the importance of vaccines, and ultimately it's going to be vaccines that are going to get us back to the way of life," the CDC director said.

1:08 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

A "large proportion" of US will not be vaccinated for Covid-19 this year, Fauci says

From CNN's Amanda Watts

Graeme Jennings/Pool/AP
Graeme Jennings/Pool/AP

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told the Senate Health Committee on Wednesday that a “large proportion” of the United States will not be vaccinated against Covid-19 this year.  

If a vaccine is approved and begins to get rolled out by the end of the year, Fauci said, “If you're talking about who's going to get vaccinated in December, or November, it is not going to be a large proportion of the population.”  

When you get to January and February of next year, then further into April, that’s when the US could potentially see “a total of about 700 million” doses, he added.

Those prioritized for an early vaccine will likely be health care providers and those who are vulnerable, with underlying conditions, he said.  

“We're not going to have all of the doses available, for example, by the end of December, they will be rolling in as the months go by,” Fauci said. “By the time you get to maybe the third or fourth month of the 2021, then you'll have doses for everyone,” he said.
1:00 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

CNN senior medical correspondent: CDC head's explanation on changing testing guidance was "gaslighting"

From CNN's Aditi Sangal

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

At today's Senate hearing, Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the agency changed its controversial testing guidelines for people without Covid-19 symptoms when "it became progressively apparent that the guidelines were not interpreted in the manner in which we had intended them to be interpreted."

But CNN's senior medical correspondent slammed the director's explanation, saying he is "gaslighting people," which is contributing to the lack of public trust in the public health community and vaccines.

"Come on. He's gaslighting people. Nobody misunderstood it. The CDC said something that was not correct and so they changed it. And this is one little chip in the trust of the American people. If Dr. Redfield could just say, 'Look, we said something in the wrong way and so we're changing it.' I think people would trust him and would trust the CDC."

When he says something and then says, 'Oh, no. You just misunderstood me.' That's gaslighting and people don't trust gaslighters," she added.

Some background: On Aug. 26, the CDC altered its testing guidance to say some people without symptoms may not need to be tested, even if they've been in close contact with someone known to have the virus. 

CNN reported the sudden change came as a result of pressure from the upper ranks of the Trump administration, according to a federal health official close to the process.

Redfield put out a statement the next day, saying the agency was "placing an emphasis on testing individuals with symptomatic illness" and other vulnerable populations with the change. 

Hear from CNN's senior medical correspondent: 

12:30 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

Redfield says removed CDC document about how Covid-19 spreads was "not technically reviewed"

From CNN’s Amanda Watts

 

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

Dr. Robert Redfield, director at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the document posted and subsequently removed that explained how Covid-19 spreads was “not technically reviewed” before it was posted. 

During the Senate Health Committee hearing on Wednesday, Redfield told Sen. Tim Kaine the difference between the two documents was about “the balance of the component that aerosolized transmission plays compared to droplet transmission.” 

Referring to portions of document that were reverted back to older guidance, Kaine asked Redfield if it was accurate to say “people who are infected but do not show symptoms can spread the virus?” 

Redfield replied, “absolutely they can.” 

Again referring to the version that was taken down, Kaine noted the document said “there is growing evidence that droplets in airborne particles can remain suspended in the air and be breathed in by others, and travel distances beyond six feet, for example, during choir practice, in restaurants or in fitness classes.”

“Is that statement accurate?” Kaine asked.

“There’s definitely evidence of that,” Redfield said.

“There is going to be a technically reviewed document on this issue coming on the website,” Redfield said.  

“But the one that was posted on Friday was not technically reviewed and as a consequence the career scientists at CDC took it down, put up the technically reviewed document, until the new technology review document can be posted,” he said. 

 

1:07 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

Fauci says Sen. Rand Paul has repeatedly misconstrued facts about the pandemic

From CNN's Nicky Robertson 

Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images
Alex Edelman/Pool/Getty Images

Republican Sen. Rand Paul challenged Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, over whether coronavirus restrictions are effective in curbing the spread of the disease.

Fauci was quick to respond to Paul’s comparison of the US and Sweden’s response to curbing the virus, and Paul's suggestion that their death rate is lower because they had fewer restrictions. Fauci said it was inappropriate to compare the US and Sweden, and defended the US response. 

“I don’t regret saying that the only way we could have really stopped the explosion of infection, was by essentially, when I say shutting down, I mean essentially having the physical separation and kind of recommendations that we made,” Fauci said.

The Kentucky lawmaker then went on to claim that Fauci was a “big fan of Cuomo and the shutdown in New York.”

“You’ve misconstrued that, senator, and you’ve done that repeatedly in the past,” Fauci fired back. “They got hit very badly and they made some mistakes.”

Paul continued to push back against the infectious disease expert.

Fauci told the committee: “This happens with Sen. Rand all the time.”

He then spoke directly to Paul, saying, “you are not listening to what the director of the CDC said” about immunity rates in New York.

Paul tested positive for coronavirus in March.

See the exchange here: 

12:08 p.m. ET, September 23, 2020

Public can trust CDC guidelines despite multiple reversals, chief says  

From CNN's Ali Main

Graeme Jennings/Pool/AFP/Getty Images
Graeme Jennings/Pool/AFP/Getty Images

Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, addressed recent reversals in his agency's guidance on both coronavirus testing and transmission on Wednesday, assuring lawmakers that the public can trust information from the nation's top health agency.

Redfield testified on Wednesday that the intent of a controversial revision in testing guidance was not to limit testing, but rather to "re-engage the medical and public health community" in the process "so that there was a public health action that happened as a consequence of every test."

On Aug. 26, the CDC altered its testing guidance to say some people without symptoms may not need to be tested, even if they've been in close contact with someone known to have the virus. CNN reported the sudden change came as a result of pressure from the upper ranks of the Trump administration, according to a federal health official close to the process.

Redfield put out a statement the next day, saying the agency was "placing an emphasis on testing individuals with symptomatic illness" and other vulnerable populations with the change. 

"It became progressively apparent that the guidelines were not interpreted in the manner in which we had intended them to be interpreted, and that's what led me to realize that we had to put out a clarification to make it explicitly clear that we believe very much that asymptomatic transmission is an important part of the transmission cycle of this virus," Redfield told the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

Adm. Brett Giroir, a member of the White House coronavirus task force, concurred with Redfield that the guidance was "widely misinterpreted."

The agency rolled back this change on Friday, once again stressing that anyone who has been in contact with an infected person should be tested.

Sen. Patty Murray, the top Democrat on the committee, also pressed Redfield on the CDC's abrupt reversal on guidance about how coronavirus is transmitted in which it removed language about airborne transmission it had posted just days earlier.

"So here is my question to you, if I want the best guidance on the latest science so I can protect myself and my family, can I trust CDC's website to give me that information?" Murray asked.

"Yes," Redfield said, going on to emphasize his agency's commitment to providing Americans with the best public health recommendations possible.

"We're committed to data and science and to give the American public the best public health recommendations we can based on that data and science, and be open, if necessary, if the data and science changes, to modify that guidance based on that new data, but we are committed to data and science and that will be the grounding of how we make these recommendations," Redfield told the committee.